When Ministry Becomes the Answer
In the dream, I was leading a small gathering of pastors I had known for years. We had spent the first part of our time doing what old friends do. We caught up. We talked about life. We laughed. The atmosphere was easy and familiar. Then the conversation became more intentional. I asked one of the pastors a simple question:
When was the last time God spoke to you clearly?
I expected a personal answer. Perhaps a Scripture that had interrupted him. A conviction that had stayed with him. A prayer that had been answered in a way he could not easily dismiss. A moment when God had corrected him, comforted him, redirected him, or brought something into focus. Instead, he opened his laptop. He began showing me screens from a program his church had implemented. He explained what they had done, how the program worked, and how people were participating in it. There was nothing wrong with the program.
That was what made the moment so striking.
He had not rejected the question. He had answered it with the vocabulary that had become most familiar to him. I had asked about his relationship with God. He answered with ministry activity. And in the dream, I remember thinking: I need to ask the question again. Not more aggressively. Not more critically. Just more personally. Thank you for telling me about the program. But what about you? When has God spoken to you personally? What has He been doing in you? Then I woke up. For several minutes, I lay there thinking about the difference between two questions:
What is your church doing?
What is God doing in you? They are not the same question.
And perhaps one of the quiet challenges facing the modern church is that we have become far more fluent in answering the first than the second.
The Language We Know Best
Ask a pastor how the church is doing, and the answer usually comes quickly. Attendance is up. Giving is steady. We added another service. Small-group participation is growing. We baptized twenty-three people last quarter. The youth ministry is expanding. We launched a new campus. We sent a missions team overseas. We trained forty new leaders. These are meaningful answers. They represent people, sacrifice, work, courage, stewardship, and often genuine fruit.
Churches should care about these things. A church that never asks whether anyone is attending, giving, serving, being baptized, or being sent is not necessarily more spiritual. It may simply be poorly led. Numbers can reveal important realities. But they can also create an illusion of completeness. We may know how many people came into the building without knowing what is happening inside the people who came. We may know how many completed a discipleship course without knowing whether they became more forgiving. We may know how many joined a small group without knowing whether anyone in that group has learned to confess sin, receive correction, reconcile conflict, or obey Christ when obedience becomes costly. We may know how many people were baptized without knowing what happened after the water dried. We may know how many leaders were trained without knowing whether those leaders are becoming more humble, more prayerful, more discerning, or more dependent on God. We know what happened around them.
Do we know what happened within them? That is a different kind of question. And it is much harder to answer.
What Is Easy to Count. Churches have always counted things. The book of Acts records numbers. Crowds mattered. Conversions mattered. Baptisms mattered. Churches being established mattered. Leaders being appointed mattered. So the problem is not measurement. Measurement can be an act of stewardship. If a church says it exists to reach its city, it should know whether it is reaching anyone. If a ministry says it is planting churches, it should know whether churches are actually being planted. If leaders are entrusted with money, they should account for it carefully. If an organization says it is training leaders, it should know whether leaders are actually being trained. The difficulty begins when the things that are easiest to count gradually become the things we use to define success.
Attendance is visible. Giving is visible. Baptism is visible. Program participation is visible. Spiritual formation often is not. Patience does not appear on the weekly dashboard. Forgiveness rarely has a line item. Humility is difficult to chart. The slow breaking of a destructive pattern may never appear in an annual report. A husband learning to listen to his wife differently is difficult to capture in aggregate. A woman who has lived for years under fear but is gradually learning to trust God may not move any institutional metric. A businessman deciding that obedience matters more than profit may never be counted.
Yet these may be among the clearest signs that discipleship is actually working.
Three Different Questions
Part of the confusion disappears when we distinguish three kinds of questions.
Activity asks
What are people doing?
- Are they attending?
- Serving?
- Giving?
- Joining groups?
- Reading Scripture?
Organizational growth asks
What is the ministry becoming?
- Is it expanding?
- Planting?
- Training leaders?
- Reaching more people?
- Building capacity?
Spiritual formation asks
Who are the people becoming?
- More loving?
- More obedient?
- More forgiving?
- More prayerful?
- More discerning?
- More free?
- More like Jesus?
Healthy churches should care about all three. But they should not confuse them. Activity can support formation. Organizational growth can create environments where formation occurs. Neither automatically tells us whether formation is happening.
The Answer Behind the Laptop. That is why the laptop in my dream stayed with me. The pastor's answer was not scandalous. It was normal. He did what church leaders are trained to do. He described the program. He showed the system. He explained the activity. He reported what had happened organizationally. In many ministry environments, that is exactly what leadership requires.
What leadership usually asks
- What did you launch?
- How many people came?
- How much did it cost?
- How many leaders participated?
- Did it work?
- Should we do it again?
What rarely fits a dashboard
- What is God teaching you?
- Where are you being convicted?
- What are you obeying now that you were resisting a year ago?
- What Scripture is shaping the way you live?
- Where has fear lost some of its grip?
- Whom have you forgiven?
- What destructive pattern is weakening?
- Where are you becoming more like Jesus?
Those are good questions. But they are not the only questions. There is another set that rarely fits cleanly into a dashboard. Those questions do not reject church activity. They ask what the activity is producing. The church does not exist merely to generate Christian activity. It exists to make disciples. And discipleship is ultimately about people being formed into the likeness of Christ.
Paul described his ministry to the Galatians with the phrase, "until Christ is formed in you." We will return to that biblical vision in greater depth. For now, the phrase gives us enough to ask the question beneath every ministry report:
How would we know if Christ were actually being formed in the people?
The Question Beneath Church Growth
The church-growth conversation has often centered on important questions. How do we reach more people? How do we plant more churches? How do we develop leaders? How do we mobilize people for mission? How do we build healthier organizations? We should continue asking those questions.
But another question belongs beside them:
Are the people becoming more like Jesus?
That question does not make attendance irrelevant. It asks what attendance is leading toward. It does not make small groups irrelevant. It asks what kind of people are emerging from them. It does not diminish baptism. It asks what happens after baptism. It does not dismiss leadership development. It asks what kind of leaders are being developed.
The question beneath church growth is not simply:
How large did we become?
It is: What kind of people are we becoming?
A Better Follow-Up Question. In the dream, I never reached the point of asking the pastor my follow-up question. I woke before I could. But perhaps that unfinished conversation is the right place to begin this book. Because the task ahead is not to accuse pastors of caring about the wrong things.
It is to ask a better question.
Thank you for telling me what the church is doing. Now tell me what is happening in the people. Where are they growing? Where are they changing? Where are they becoming free? Where are they learning obedience? Where are they becoming more loving? Where are relationships being healed? Where is character being formed? Where are people becoming capable of helping someone else follow Jesus? And perhaps the deepest question of all:
Are we measuring what Jesus is forming?
That question does not require us to throw away the measurements we already have. It asks us to see their limits. And the best way to see those limits is to look closely at the kind of report churches already know how to write.


